Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Shalu Sharma on December 2, 2010 at 7:34pm

Its called vote bank politics.

I remember a friend who got into medical college with 42% marks with reservation and is now a doctor. Another friend tried with 82% and could not get into medicine and now works in a private company doing something else. Another friend had 89% marks and got into medicine without reservation and is a brilliant doctor in my opinion (dont ask me which one I go to if I need to see a doctor).

If you want to lean social engineering, come to India.

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Permalink Reply by sunil kumar on December 2, 2010 at 9:12pm

I am completely disagree with this. Before you blame reservation system please look at the social fabric. SC ST ( for you untouchable ) have been subject to hate since century . What was their fault ? I am sorry to say that but What great Brahmin Rajput and etc etc brought to the nation despite of their rule since century ? Today the entire nation is at brink of collapse due to corruption and crime.. What and how these so called forward class bring good for the nation that is at the brink of collapse and sccumb to corruption ? I do not believe in caste but being a human being i feel the pain and misery of SC and ST and can imagine how humiliating it would have been and still continue is to be called as untouchable..

If you have read our religious book then you would have been aware about Shambuk Vadh by Lord Sri Ram. How would you justify this senseless killing of Sambuk ? Just because he was untouchable ??

Be honest and try to understand that whatever reservation they are being given is to bring them into the mainstream of the society so that they too can contribute for the building of the nation and ward off the feeling of untouchable and also get strength to stand side by side with people like you who have deep rooted hate towards untouchable..

Mind it , I do not belongs to these community and never took any govt favour till today.. My objective to defend the couse of reservation is to justify the cuase behind it and open the eye of those blind who blatantly deny to see the fact behind it..

I have no intention to harm or demean oneone or any community.. To me, my religion, caste and creed is India and Indianess...



Shalu Sharma said:

Its called vote bank politics.

I remember a friend who got into medical college with 42% marks with reservation and is now a doctor. Another friend tried with 82% and could not get into medicine and now works in a private company doing something else. Another friend had 89% marks and got into medicine without reservation and is a brilliant doctor in my opinion (dont ask me which one I go to if I need to see a doctor).

If you want to lean social engineering, come to India.

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Permalink Reply by Abhishek on December 3, 2010 at 1:06am

India is better off, shedding the burden of your ilk.

Good that you recognised it. But, the black story is only few hundred years old. While the story of bourgeoisie culture and the pariah of this system dates back beyond calenders.

The ultimate goal as thought out by the founders of our constitution is no mean but would take time to realise, much less than what it took to bring the inequalities to the present low but much more than the life times of few generations together.

Curse our fate or destiny had it for us that we are born in India in reservation era.

So what, till we can fly out to those places where the system had no such malaise of unimaginable proportion to handle with!

Rohini said:

We have hypocrites in India. they will not say anything for fear of being branded a casteist. Thank god I have left the country. With 49% reservation in all government sectors, there is no scope for development. We have blacks in the USA and they have suffered slavery for hundreds of years there are no reservation for them. India government sucks big time.

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Permalink Reply by Shalu Sharma on December 3, 2010 at 2:13am

Interestingly the sons and daughters of Ram Vilas Paswan and Laloo Yadav are also benefiting from this policy even though they have amassed crores of rupees. No politicians will ever take this issue of loosing votes from the privileged castes. The whole issue is very bitter indeed, it incites hatred and bigotry among the people.

This is state sponsored racial profiling and discrimination by the Government of India. Someone ought to take this matter to the Human Rights Court at the Hague. But considering the double standards of the Indian psyche, no one at least ones in the public eye will take up this issue.

Thanks to VP Singh and his protege Laloo Yadav, Mandalian politics is now part of Indian politics that has led to new creed of politicians like Matawati, Mulayams etc.

Dr Kumar, you have done the right thing to leave this country at least for your children, depending what caste you are. In India the government decides whome to give jobs and places in colleges depending on your caste. Shame to India and such cheap brand of politics.

God may have created everyone as equals but in India the supreme court does not think so, it upheld the right to reserve jobs and university places for some sections of society.

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Permalink Reply by sunil kumar on December 3, 2010 at 8:25am

They do not have any discrimination not because they are very civilised , it is just because this is how the have been brought up. During your stay in India have you ever open your mouth on discriminatioin on hatred towards untouchable since century. It is you people who cut them off from the main stream of the society and make them suffer just because they are so called untouchable and you are born intelligent.
How do you justify this criminal and barbaric act of so called High class people of India and shamelessly when govt want to bring them into society you are opening your bloody mouth and bugging them. By leaving nation you did no good to us and mind my word, one day you will come back and eat your own word..

Today you are thinking about suffering of your children but what about suffering of the children of the untouchable to whom you and your community has vicitmise them since century ?

Do you have any remorse for that ? You bloody shameless , you dare taking about suffering of your children . Go and repent for the damage you and your community has done to these untouchable. Are they less human ? If not then why did not you feel their pein when they were being victimise. And now when govt want to bring them to main stream into the society you are barking at them.

You might be a doctor but i think you need to visit a mental doctor for your mental bankrupcy and being so unsensitive towards the feelings of these people to whom you called untouchable...

I am not in your word ( an untouchable ) but being a human being i do feel their plight and feel that what ever is being done is not enought to cure the wound given by you and your community or mostly people of such state of mind like you...

Dr. Ajay Kumar said:

Mrs. Sharma, you are right in saying I did well to leave. My children, born and educated in public schools and 7th. best university in UK, have achieved their position in civil service, based in Whitehall, in the heart of British establishment entirely on their merit. I won't say a word about their cousins in India. Belonging to a higher caste (kayasth), I stood no chance of rising in the state health service. All my contemporary classmates with few exceptions, joined and retired as civil assistant surgeon. Those of us who left were rewarded according to our merit. My contemporary, late Dr. Mohan Roy became one of the most successful cardiac surgeon in America.
Two of my own classmates, both consultants, are examiners in MRCP examinations.

This, in a different land amongst people who look different, eat different, think different, speak different. But here, it is merit and talent that count, nothing else matter. In world renowned heart surgery Papworth Hospital, Cambridge, you will be forgiven to think you are in United nations General Assembly. All nationality work there, from Consultant Cardiac Surgeon to most junior house surgeon. I spent a post graduate training day there with a young Consultant Cardiac Surgeon. He was a Palestinians ! No country, no passport. What he has was talent and merit.

It is sad that we don't have a new JP in our midst. I am a proud owner of tape. In my 1975 visit to family, I happen to meet JP and requested an interview. He agreed. I took my tape recorder. We talked about his life, belief. Then I asked him to elaborate his "Sampurn Kranti" which he did in absolute clarity. I cherish my one hour with him and I cherish the tape too. A few days after I returned home to England, I was shocked to see news of declaration of emergency and arrest of JP. I thought of giving the tape to BBC, but I chickened out. My late wife had stayed behind for four more weeks and I didn't want to put her in any trouble by this act.

Reservation is artificial selection of un-merit. It is true, God created all human beings as equal. We all partake same food, breathe same air, walk on same earth. But God in some mysterious way, has distributed merit and intelligence in unequal amount. That is why, for society to function in orderly way, subordination is the rule. And if this equation is interfered with, resentment is inevitable.

This is how a society, a nation move forward. Until we worship merit and talent, we will remain same. But then, we have to open educational institutions on a massive scale in order to provide education for all, open door for all, give opportunity to all. They will walk through the door themselves on their merit, unlike reservation when we push them forcibly. The curse is vote bank, the villain is politician. I hope VP is burning in hell for fracturing India.

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Permalink Reply by sunil kumar on December 3, 2010 at 8:53am

VP will not burn in hell just because of some mentally bankrupt could not understand the the basic of social justice. He raise above the heaven because he brought justice to the poorest of the poor and the so called untouchable who were subject to discrimination and hate since century. It is your forefather are buring in the hell for the unjustice they have done toward the untouchable. Were they less human ? You and your community and entire clan throw them off the main steam of the society and victimise them to the maximum and treat them like shit and now when gove is doing something to bring them into the main stream of the society , you are barking at them.. Do not preach about basis of merit, if untouchable would have given equal right since the begining then their children would have outshine their name and you would have opportunity to write here.
Be a man and give justify your barbaric act towards untouchable and backword class. How do you justify that ? Just by lame execuse and blaming to Laloo and paaswaan.. It is you people rule Bihar since independence but what good you bring to Bihar ? Today Bihar is prospering because it is now being run by you people but (in your word ) so called backward class.

When you feel the pain of your children then do feel the same for others. Be a human being and help to bring the poorest of poor and so called untouchable to the main stream of the society then open your bloody mouth..
Untill them just shut up do not justify your barbaric and inhuman act towards untouchable just by lame execuse..


sunil kumar vishwakarma said:

They do not have any discrimination not because they are very civilised , it is just because this is how the have been brought up. During your stay in India have you ever open your mouth on discriminatioin on hatred towards untouchable since century. It is you people who cut them off from the main stream of the society and make them suffer just because they are so called untouchable and you are born intelligent.
How do you justify this criminal and barbaric act of so called High class people of India and shamelessly when govt want to bring them into society you are opening your bloody mouth and bugging them. By leaving nation you did no good to us and mind my word, one day you will come back and eat your own word..

Today you are thinking about suffering of your children but what about suffering of the children of the untouchable to whom you and your community has vicitmise them since century ?

Do you have any remorse for that ? You bloody shameless , you dare taking about suffering of your children . Go and repent for the damage you and your community has done to these untouchable. Are they less human ? If not then why did not you feel their pein when they were being victimise. And now when govt want to bring them to main stream into the society you are barking at them.

You might be a doctor but i think you need to visit a mental doctor for your mental bankrupcy and being so unsensitive towards the feelings of these people to whom you called untouchable...

I am not in your word ( an untouchable ) but being a human being i do feel their plight and feel that what ever is being done is not enought to cure the wound given by you and your community or mostly people of such state of mind like you...

Dr. Ajay Kumar said:

Mrs. Sharma, you are right in saying I did well to leave. My children, born and educated in public schools and 7th. best university in UK, have achieved their position in civil service, based in Whitehall, in the heart of British establishment entirely on their merit. I won't say a word about their cousins in India. Belonging to a higher caste (kayasth), I stood no chance of rising in the state health service. All my contemporary classmates with few exceptions, joined and retired as civil assistant surgeon. Those of us who left were rewarded according to our merit. My contemporary, late Dr. Mohan Roy became one of the most successful cardiac surgeon in America.
Two of my own classmates, both consultants, are examiners in MRCP examinations.

This, in a different land amongst people who look different, eat different, think different, speak different. But here, it is merit and talent that count, nothing else matter. In world renowned heart surgery Papworth Hospital, Cambridge, you will be forgiven to think you are in United nations General Assembly. All nationality work there, from Consultant Cardiac Surgeon to most junior house surgeon. I spent a post graduate training day there with a young Consultant Cardiac Surgeon. He was a Palestinians ! No country, no passport. What he has was talent and merit.

It is sad that we don't have a new JP in our midst. I am a proud owner of tape. In my 1975 visit to family, I happen to meet JP and requested an interview. He agreed. I took my tape recorder. We talked about his life, belief. Then I asked him to elaborate his "Sampurn Kranti" which he did in absolute clarity. I cherish my one hour with him and I cherish the tape too. A few days after I returned home to England, I was shocked to see news of declaration of emergency and arrest of JP. I thought of giving the tape to BBC, but I chickened out. My late wife had stayed behind for four more weeks and I didn't want to put her in any trouble by this act.

Reservation is artificial selection of un-merit. It is true, God created all human beings as equal. We all partake same food, breathe same air, walk on same earth. But God in some mysterious way, has distributed merit and intelligence in unequal amount. That is why, for society to function in orderly way, subordination is the rule. And if this equation is interfered with, resentment is inevitable.

This is how a society, a nation move forward. Until we worship merit and talent, we will remain same. But then, we have to open educational institutions on a massive scale in order to provide education for all, open door for all, give opportunity to all. They will walk through the door themselves on their merit, unlike reservation when we push them forcibly. The curse is vote bank, the villain is politician. I hope VP is burning in hell for fracturing India.

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Permalink Reply by sunil kumar on December 3, 2010 at 9:03am

Get Lost... You mentally bankrupt justifying the crime and barbaric act done by your clan in past . Are untouchable less human ? No, then how the hell do you justify the unjust done towards them since century. To bring them into main strem of the society we need to give them the reservatrion because in past you so called born intelligent ( Castiest, Insensitive towards the need of people, Racist) have victimise them to the maximum and throw them from the main stream of the society and now govt is doing social justice and bringing them back to the main stream. That is how indian is prospering.. You rascal rule the nation since century and what great did you brought to the nation except doing dood for yourself and your community ? If you were so intelligent then why even after the rule ( to me Misrule ) could not save from slavery of Mugals and British.. Even after independence you menally bankrupt rule the nation but today nation is at the brink of collapse why ? Why ? Is this how you claim to be good and great leader ?
Just shut up and see now our social justice bearing the fruit.. For example development of Bihar is shining example...

Rohini said:

We have hypocrites in India. they will not say anything for fear of being branded a casteist. Thank god I have left the country. With 49% reservation in all government sectors, there is no scope for development. We have blacks in the USA and they have suffered slavery for hundreds of years there are no reservation for them. India government sucks big time.

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Permalink Reply by Shalu Sharma on December 3, 2010 at 12:56pm

You can see that most people are quite on this topic simply because they dont want to seen as a casteist. @Sunil, please refrain from using derogatory remarks.

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Permalink Reply by Abhishek on December 3, 2010 at 2:29pm

Sunil, whether for or against, our discussions should be subjective. You can very well present your convictions without aiming at individuals. Thus you will also be guiding people to follow your way. Anyway, I am long due on this issue and would come in very soon. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by sunil kumar on December 3, 2010 at 2:32pm

you can not look at past and see the damage and betrayal done by your clan to the similar human being and when you have no justification for that so you are trying to be civilised by claming it slanging match . Just accept that that bitter truth that you forefather has done unrepairable damage to untouchable and when they are joining the main stream you feel frightened and unsecure. Want security and betterment for your children and your career but shamlessly denying wrong doing by you and your forefathers..
Being a doctor is not a symbol of being civilised , when a person has rotten mentality and deny their wrong doing towards certain community is considered Uncivilised. And the worst is that who oppose the move to compensate them to bring them back to the society.. Reservation started only after independence but they have been subject to humiliation and unjust since century. Even Lord Sri Ram killed Sambuk on that ground ? Go and read about Shambuk and Shambuk Vadh..

I know how intelligent and civilised you are...

Dr. Ajay Kumar said:

I am sorry, but I can not indulge in personal slanging match and use uncivilised language.

The ire that is expressed is product of half educated and ill informed conclusion. When there are 100 schools all over India, and 100,000 students, you restrict admission. Then you further restrict by insisting that 50 from one caste will be admitted, denying place to10,000 others from the same community. So, these lucky ones avail the opportunities to uplift themselves but at the expense of others in their own community. They don't look at the larger picture. They don't raise their voice to demand opening of hundreds of thousands of schools and colleges so each and everyone has equal opportunity to education without any restriction. No, they don't want it for simple reason that when such things happens, quota and special favour, they won't survive in an environment of competition. They can only survive in the culture of reservation. Simply because they have no merit. And merit is what matters in a vibrant forward looking society. What I am saying is "Opportunity for All". People who benefit from reservation always forget that others look down on them for their inferior intellect, though one doesn't say it. Look at private sector employment practices. If you have merit, sky is the limit. In reservation system, jobs are mostly in public sector. You join the Secretariat as "Chota Babu" and retire as "Bara Babu". You get in the queue and when you reach the counter, you have reached the maximum. Is it the end of human ambition ? To join as a Clerk and retire as a Head Clerk ?

Look at the broader picture as an Indian. This system has fractured the nation. If cricket unites India and nothing else, one must ponder where did we go wrong and why did we go wrong. Uplifting a select few is harming the community, nation and its reputation. Uplifting all with equal opportunity and provision of education and jobs for all is the way forward,

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Permalink Reply by Shalu Sharma on December 3, 2010 at 7:10pm

@Shyam N Singh, says that RESERVATION is not hurting India. Ofcourse it is hurting India. The way I see it are as follows;

1. state sponsored discrimination. Your caste is important to determine if you will get a government job or not and admission to medical colleges etc.

2. produces incompetent doctors, engineers, IAS officers compared to those who enter with competition

3. creates hatred among students. If you have been to prestigious universities you will see the hatred among general and SC/ST category students. It will put pre-apartheid South Africa to shame.

4. this social division directly or indirectly has created outfits such as Maoists communists centre (MCC) and Ranbir Sena responsible killing thousands of innocenty lives right here in the holy land of Bihar.

The above mentioned are just the tip of the iceburg that are visible without a microscope. What lies beneath is anyones guess.

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Permalink Reply by Shalu Sharma on December 3, 2010 at 10:37pm

Not to mention killing in the name of caste by Ranbir sena and MCC.

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